So Cams up top or cam in the middle?

[cobramike347]

Those billet blocks are definitely a work of art. The video summed it up, INDESTRUCTABLE. Thanks for posting that video.

[2k05gt]

But going back to the OP Question..
CAMS up Top Cam in the Middle?

Add to your question "For the Money".....
To do Cams in my 3V 4.6 I could spend an easy 2000.00 for a Springs required
set. and 900 for a NSR (No Springs Required) set. and only see 30-40 hp gain

Throw a 700.00 intall of a pushrod cam and pick up twice as much hp.

The problem with the 3V is the VCT (Veriable Cam Timing) can advance or retard the timing as much as 60 Deg. this will not happen with high lift Cams
without some serious damage.

Thats my only issue with the 3V 4.6 (other than I wish it had fordged internal) then for 6K I would just bolt a Supercharger on top and go....

[03stangr]

Originally Posted by Hurstmeister

The 4.6 block itself is far superior to the tried and true H.O roller blocks.

My biggest issue with 4.6 motors are the size of the heads and the limited engine bay space they consume. Anyone who has put long tube headers on a 4.6 engine knows where I am coming from. You can not remove the tranny to do a clutch job with out removing the passenger side header tube,.. as luck would have it,. that side is also impossible to remove the last 2 header bolts. You simply can not get a wrench on it. In order to get at it,.. the k-member must be dropped,.. the engine lowered about 6 - 8 inches and then you can get at it.


Performance wise,.. the 4.6 is on pretty equal territory as the 5.0. A 2V 4.6 will make about 270 RWHP using typical bolt ons and a tune. Thats comparable to the 5.0. The 4v 4.6 with B heads can make between 310 and 320 rwhp. With C heads and compatible intake can make 320 - 330. This is stock long block and cams,.. just using bolt ons and a tune. The 4v motors go beyond what a stock 5.0 long block is capable of. You can throw a 4v motor into and fox or SN95 car,.. throw a 100 shot on it and you have an 11 second car all day long and still get 25 mpg on the highway. My 2v 4.6 when I had the 3.27 gear could do almost 400 miles to a tank. A fox car with 5.0 will never see 400 miles to a single tank.

As for reliability,.. tons of 96 - 98 GTs out there with and with out PI head swaps that have been beat on and are showing upwards of 130k - 150k miles. So they are also on par with 5.0 engines on that level also.

The only thing I think the 5.0 has the advantage is that it is cheaper to build a 5.0,.. there is a larger after market,.. you can do a cheap carb swap if you dont want to fool with EFI,.. so for the poor guy who wants to race on the cheap,.. the 5.0 is a very good option.

In stock form the 4.6 is good to about 430 hp. After that they are on borrowed time. The 5.0 in stock form seem to be very comfortable making 500 hp using stock internals. How ever,.. with forged internals and supporting mods,.. a 4.6 can be taken to well over 1200 hp,.. any block. The 5.0 block cant even hold half that together.

On a budget,. I'd say the 5.0. Money no object,. the 4.6 hands down.

Hurst

Very well put. But like others I'd stil go for a ohv engine over a single or double ohc. Even the 01-03 3.8 blocks were extremely durable. With this block you can easily upgrade to a 4.3 stroker and get up to 550HP with the right setup. Just go to supersixmotorsports.com and you'll see what I talking about. Like you've mentioned, the work required to upgrade one engine vs the other is a huge advantage. This and the 5.0 are so nice to work on. And with both of the above you can now go with EFI or Carb.
A Stage 3 powerpak, a quality torque converter, the right gears and someone that knows how to tune can really get the most out the engine. You can knock automatics all you want, but there will be plenty of them at the track with a tranny brake waiting for the green light to prove any disbelievers wrong. I have a 4R70W in my Stang and after I got a quality torque converter and tuned the torque modulation, shift firmness and shift times it really had a lot more HP/torque at the rear wheels. I think this subject is going to go all over the place. All I can say is that I learned to work on the OHV engines working for my Dad in his shop when I was 12yrs old and was on the books at 14 at which time I got to play with the engines. That was many moons ago before Computers where even born. I had a 64 1/2 stang with a K code engine and built that to the hills. So much that welded on ladder bars wouldn't stay on it. Drivelines and ujoints were another wallet breaker. My Mustang then had a Holley 650 dual pumper with a tunnel ram. Moving at idle speeds in first gear would bark the tires, making it look like a frog jumping from one spot to the next with each turn of the crank. it was radical is all I can say. You can imagine what kind of cam I had in it, completly balanced and blue printed. There were not too many cars that could touch me. Those were fun times. You know I did like the 2003 Cobra though. That car with the M112 supercharger that many upgraded was/is a Stang I'd still love to have I could still keep my convertible, which I couldn't. If money only grew on trees - oh much fun we'd have !

[The Vader]

Very Good posts and very good points!!
Me myself I've had the best of both worlds with a 5.0 motor & a 4.6 motor. I must say that in my experience in the past years is that if you wanted to really beef up your 5 liter and go the whole A4 block direction and had a trust fund, you can make big power with those combo's in a 5 liter block. Now I was in the budget stuff where I had no trust fund to go fall back on and the old stock block just had to make do. I made around 450 hp in my old 5 liter and blew it up several times spinning bearing, ruining piston rings, blown head gaskets you name it but I rebuilt that little stock motor about 5 times and it took a licking with a few hundred passes on it till it split into many little pieces. It was a trooper but I knew if I wanted serious power it was going to be VERY serious money.
Now here is my 2003 Cobra motor which is an amazing motor and pushed that little bitch to the breaking point till I found it which was 689 RWHP at 694 RWTQ. I must admit I made some errors along the way but trying to drive my car to the track on 91 octane and driving it till almost empty then stuffing 110 leaded gas into it wasn't the best idea. I did come to notice that I was affecting the octane when I was mixing the gas and started to have some small detonation which led to Heroshima. Now I never owned a supercharged car before and it was a learning expierence, so after after melting 4 pistons I've obviuosly learned my lesson by by buying a tow vehicle and now gone the way of a built up the motor with better pistons hogged out heads and new cams with better valve train and a nice upgraded Whipple Supercharger from a 2.3 to a 3.4. I've heard some wild numbers thrown at me since I'm waiting for my shop to do the installation but I've heard 800-875 RWHP and god knows how much RWTQ on a stock block. I know my old liter block could never handle that much BEEF but I do know with evolution comes better parts that can take more punishment.
SO if you ask me I would say that the 4.6 is a better block for punishment but nothing is like working on a 5 liter motor where you don't need hands of a china man and patience of monk to work on a 4.6.
So that's my opinion, I saw your posts and thought I would put my 2 cents in there.
GOD BLESS HORSE POWER...Mustang HP!!

[03stangr]

Originally Posted by The Vader

Very Good posts and very good points!!
Me myself I've had the best of both worlds with a 5.0 motor & a 4.6 motor. I must say that in my experience in the past years is that if you wanted to really beef up your 5 liter and go the whole A4 block direction and had a trust fund, you can make big power with those combo's in a 5 liter block. Now I was in the budget stuff where I had no trust fund to go fall back on and the old stock block just had to make do. I made around 450 hp in my old 5 liter and blew it up several times spinning bearing, ruining piston rings, blown head gaskets you name it but I rebuilt that little stock motor about 5 times and it took a licking with a few hundred passes on it till it split into many little pieces. It was a trooper but I knew if I wanted serious power it was going to be VERY serious money.
Now here is my 2003 Cobra motor which is an amazing motor and pushed that little bitch to the breaking point till I found it which was 689 RWHP at 694 RWTQ. I must admit I made some errors along the way but trying to drive my car to the track on 91 octane and driving it till almost empty then stuffing 110 leaded gas into it wasn't the best idea. I did come to notice that I was affecting the octane when I was mixing the gas and started to have some small detonation which led to Heroshima. Now I never owned a supercharged car before and it was a learning expierence, so after after melting 4 pistons I've obviuosly learned my lesson by by buying a tow vehicle and now gone the way of a built up the motor with better pistons hogged out heads and new cams with better valve train and a nice upgraded Whipple Supercharger from a 2.3 to a 3.4. I've heard some wild numbers thrown at me since I'm waiting for my shop to do the installation but I've heard 800-875 RWHP and god knows how much RWTQ on a stock block. I know my old liter block could never handle that much BEEF but I do know with evolution comes better parts that can take more punishment.
SO if you ask me I would say that the 4.6 is a better block for punishment but nothing is like working on a 5 liter motor where you don't need hands of a china man and patience of monk to work on a 4.6.
So that's my opinion, I saw your posts and thought I would put my 2 cents in there.
GOD BLESS HORSE POWER...Mustang HP!!

Yep, and upgrading your internals due to the fact that Boost or nitrous kills stock pistons. I think a lot of it has to do with what boost you choose of course. Not sure what boost you have now. Wasn't the stock M112 a fairly low boost supercharger?
Some Forged Wiseco pistons manufactured from forged 2618 aluminum alloy, feature durability improvements for power adder and nitrous applications in your daily driver. Once you put the quality rods and pistons in at least your wallet won't open quite as often.

[powerjames]

There is no doubt the Modular is a superior "hp per ci" player. The problem is cost, look at the cam prices you guys are throwing around. They are still expensive, WAY expensive.

Compare it to an LS motor (1 cam) and it's not good math dollar to dollar.

[The Vader]

Listen I would rather spend the $$$$ to have 4 cams that idle and do there job properly!! Remember back in the day when we had to use those old Ford Motorsport cams excluding the E cam....nasty idle with no vacuum. I don't know how many times I almost ran into people cause I had NO BRAKES!! or the car would just shut off when you where on date with your 5 liter and your like Felix the cat with your magic bag of tricks/tools.
No thanks you I would rather have my 4 cams at $1000 and not have the headaches!!
Also remember no more pushrods that could bend that would eat up your rocker arms and minus the rocker girdle that would cost you a few hundred bucks and the possible broken pedistal mounts. The way I see it costs the same thing when your making decent power but the 4.6 is a better evolution of the ford power plant with all the trimmings with ALOT more reliability.
Now as far as you bringing the LS stuff into this forum I have NO IDEA what your talking about when your talking about GM and LS this and that!! I know nothing about GM's and never want to know. If I want to go slow I know to put a Bow tie on it.
Peace out!!
RIP...GM nobody will miss that crap especially me!!